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发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux I
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:48:40 1997)
Subject: Re: Why FreeBSD?
Any response to a question like this is bound to upset someone. I'll
answer with the caveat that this is my opinion that developed over the
past three years following them both as well as other commercial OSs.
Those of you offended in any way by this, please cat flames > /dev/null.
That said -- the differences between FreeBSD and Linux can best be
understood in the context of American politics. There are essentially two
philosophies: Republican (FreeBSD) and Democrat (Linux).
The FreeBSD organization is a republican structure -- we have our say as
users, but the final decisions devolve to the core team who take the final
responsibility for their decisions. FreeBSD takes a conservative approach.
In other words, better things should work correctly at the expense of a
minorities desires, than to please all of the people all of the time and
have unexpected components of the OS breaking on a regular basis. We are
free to vote our approval or disapproval by changing our OS.
Linux is a democratic group. There is no single authority to accept final
responsibility except for Linus as it relates to the kernel. Linux adopted
early on a consensus approach (POSIX, etc.). In a sense, Linux is much
like current Democratic politics -- the mob pretty much rules. The end
result is that there is really no such thing as Linux -- there are
distributions that use the Linux kernel and from then on you have
essentially different operating systems. Slackware, for example, doesn't
look at all like Red Hat. Describing Linux is much like describing Mach.
(There isn't much - both are just micro kernels. _Anything_ can be
implemented over them.)
So as I see it, it comes down to this: vote for the philosophy that
appeals to you. I use FreeBSD because I rely on my machine for many other
uses besides tinkering with operating systems. FreeBSD doesn't change the
world on me every 6 months. Linux is in constant change. New things are
showing up all the time. If you like tinkering with operating systems and
having things that used to work break, Linux may be your answer. If you
don't know Unix -- pick one and get started. You'll learn how to pick the
best choice. No matter which one you pick, it will be infinitely better
that Micros**t anything.
Enjoy.
-- Jay
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux II
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:49:22 1997)
Subject: Re: Why FreeBSD?
And the clouds parted on 21 Mar 97, and Jeff Roberts
said:
＞On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Bob Dole wrote:
＞
＞> Hi, I plan on changing to UNIX and I wonder wether I should take Linux or
＞> FreeBSD...
＞> Both seem to be an excellent choice, so you can't say one is better than
＞> the other. But in what are they different, in what is each specialized?
＞
Then try them both: they're both "free", but you'll have to pay something
for you Internet connection or CDROM distribution, depending on your
circumstances. The following is not impartial, as I don't play with Linux
much, but when I did I wasn't as happy as I am now 8).
[opinions on]
Linux is SysV-flavored (barely); FreeBSD is BSD-flavored (definitely).
Linux's kernel is authored by one person (Linus Torvalds); FreeBSD is
authored by (essentially) the core team.
Linux addons come from pretty much everywhere; FreeBSD's get submitted from
a lot of places also, but have to pass review to be included as part of the
release.
Linux has multiple releases (based on who's packaging), all somewhat
different from each other, and somewhat inoperative as well. There's only
one release to FreeBSD (per major version)
Linux tends to be more cutting-edge and trendy, and tends to work with more
hardware (to some degree), partly because of the "arrangements" made with
vendors. FreeBSD requires that source code be freely obtainable for
(nearly?) all it's parts, which scares some vendors into not cooperating,
or at least not as well. The hardware that _is_ supported tends to be done
pretty robustly.
Linux is snappier for low-user-count systems, depending on what you're
trying to do. FreeBSD tends to shine under real load (like WWW/FTP
servers), and I don't really know if any major sites base such Internet
services on Linux; quite a few seem to be using FreeBSD, particularly
Walnut Creek CDROM, which carries quite a load on a consistent basis.
There are far more books on Linux than FreeBSD per se, something I draw no
conclusions on.
The support on the Linux list(s) is something I haven't any personal
experience with; the support on the FreeBSD lists is exemplary.
[opinions off]
Please correct any sins of commission and ommission you find above; I don't
do this often enough to be any good at it.
your mileage may vary, and best wishes,
larry
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux III
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:49:57 1997)
Subject: linux vs freebsd testimonial
A few weeks ago, my single linux box fried. I replaced both the hard
drive (with an identicle one) and linux with freebsd 2.1.5.
The machine runs majordomo, ftp, apache, and an irc server.
The performance is way up there! Under linux it would frequently slug
down to a crawl. under FreeBSD it just keeps zipping along.
There is a very definite noticable difference in response and load
handling.
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux IV
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:50:45 1997)
Subject: Re: linux vs freebsd testimonia
Ok. I will also tell my experience...
On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, spork wrote:
＞ Since we've gotten along fairly well in our migration from Linux, I
＞ thought I'd share my experiences as well...
I used Linux for almost 2 years and then changed to FreeBSD despite it
lack of support of the Iomega ZIP drive (Official Support, I mean).
＞ These have been the most trouble-free machines we've worked with. Some of
＞ the recent security problems were a bit tough (lots of cvsup-ing), but
＞ nothing compared to the nasty Slackware Linux Bug-o-the-month. The only
Instead of using Slackware you could use RedHat which is much more safer.
When a hole appears they imediatly release an update. This was the
distribution I used.
＞ reboots *any* of these machines have seen were intentional, which is
＞ something I just can't say about Linux. Performance is much better, and
I don't know what they did with 2.2.1 because the Byte Benchmark gave me
this results (I will only print the average):
Linux 2.0.18 (generic kernel from RedHat Linux 4.0)........ 10.5
FreeBSD 2.2.1 (generic kernel)............................. 12.9
FreeBSD 2.1.5 ('personalized' kernel)...................... 6.8
It's great... My FreeBSD box it's much faster than a Linux one! :-)
About reboots in FreeBSD they are only intencional because this is the
best OS of the world! But one I forced it to crash: 2 or 3 make worlds
(I don't remember) and a make world in the X11R6 tree while cracking
1000 passwords at the same time!
＞ I must say, this has made my job much easier. Linux is just too
＞ unpredictable when you don't have the time to play the
＞ "kernel-of-the-week" game. One of the Linux boxes still does the routine
＞ of freezing with no log entries or other hints; which is extremely
＞ frustrating. FBSD just seems like it was meant to be in a production
＞ environment...
Remember: FreeBSD is not a clone! Linux is! i.e. FreeBSD is Unix(r)
One more thing: Some days ago I forced FreeBSD to use 78 MB of swap while
I was using 3 console windows, 2 xterms and a ghostview and it responded
blindly. :-) With Linux I would have to wait for the things that were
being moved from and out of swap.
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux V
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:51:35 1997)
Subject: Re: linux vs freebsd testimonial
Since we've gotten along fairly well in our migration from Linux, I
thought I'd share my experiences as well...
We currently run on FBSD:
1 Shell/user www (was NetBSD 1.0)
1 DNS/mail/dialup auth/syslog (these two are sharing mail spool over NFS)
1 utility/backup/freebies
1 DNS/mail for seperate, wacky project
2 virt www servers (3 are still Linux)
2 co-locate www servers (www.firstview.com 3.6G/day, www.villagevoice.com)
These have been the most trouble-free machines we've worked with. Some of
the recent security problems were a bit tough (lots of cvsup-ing), but
nothing compared to the nasty Slackware Linux Bug-o-the-month. The only
reboots *any* of these machines have seen were intentional, which is
something I just can't say about Linux. Performance is much better, and
the "out of box" configuration is a lot more sensible than Slackware. A
few of these machines really get beat on hard, and they just ask for more.
We have to keep one Linux web server for compatibility with some odd
sourceless C cgi's, but the other two will be history soon. Our news
server is running Linux, but it's being replaced with a machine to be
named "fridge" which will have 3 SCSI busses and 15 drives, and of course
be running FBSD.
I must say, this has made my job much easier. Linux is just too
unpredictable when you don't have the time to play the
"kernel-of-the-week" game. One of the Linux boxes still does the routine
of freezing with no log entries or other hints; which is extremely
frustrating. FBSD just seems like it was meant to be in a production
environment...
Thanks to all involved,
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux VI
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:52:17 1997)
Subject: Re: Better late than never... The FreeBSD News!
On Sun, 6 Apr 1997, Adrian Chadd wrote:
＞ Something you should say in the Linux vs. FreeBSD is the way that the two
＞ systems are implemented, ie there isn't "The Linux Distribution" unlike
＞ FreeBSD, in Linux ideas flow much more freely and .. well .. I've seen
＞ some cool ideas implemented by ugly code. :)
＞
From my work on the PostgreSQL stuff, porting and developing for
the various Unix OSs out there, all I can say is that Linux is the *worst*
thing we have to deal with...*mainly* because of the poor distribution
mechanism that they have.
One distribution will have option A, that is required, while
the other distribution won't have it, so that an installer has to go
out and find, grab and install it manually (libdl.a, should be standard,
no?)
Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, FreeBSD kicks butt in the fact
that everything *is* centralized...we *know* that the only thing we have
to compensate for is variations in versions, and even then, I haven't had
any problems running 3.0 binaries on 2.2 machines, so even variations in
versions haven't hampered us much.
Marc G. Fournier
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 7
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:52:48 1997)
Subject: Another Linux Religious war (was Re: Commercial vendors registry)
God I love a good religious battle, don't you?
I agree with Jordan - this is getting quite out of hand.
Just remember people - Linux is *NOT* an Operating system in itself.
FreeBSD *IS* because when you get FreeBSD you get the kernel, binaries,
sources, man pages, blah blah blah.
Linux isn't like that. The Linux operating system comes about when
you install particular distribution.
Linux is more flexible, which I think contributes to its success.
Someone said "hey, I don't like how thats done, so lets do it
differently", and out comes a distribution. People have that choice.
Please, this isn't a "My OS is better/bigger than your OS"
discussion/arguement/whatnot, and I think its delved a lot more off the
original thread.
Both linux and FreeBSD have their good and bad points, and unless you are
going to constructively point them out, don't say anything.
--
Adrian Chadd | UNIX, MS-DOS and Windows ...
| (also known as the Good, the bad and the
| ugly..)
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 8
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:53:38 1997)
Subject: Re: Commercial vendors registry
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[Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set]
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Jim Bryant wrote:
＞
＞
＞ [retreiveing two cents from pocket and tossing it into the hat]
＞
＞ This is exactly the kind of bs discussion that has kept US from going
＞ out and getting commercial support for FreeBSD...
＞
＞ Case in point... Lin[s]ux... Ten-Twenty different versions, bad
＞ networking, even worse VM... Vendors love it!! Why? Hmmmm...
＞
I was discussing a similar issue the other day with Richard Stallman (he
also asked me to say GNU-Linux when referring to Linux). I was
commenting how Caldera is killing Linux by effectively closing it's
development: you cannot ftp Caldera's OpenLinux and most of the
commercial applications want to have an OpenLinux license. We both
agreed that if people don't support free software we will be left with
the same situation UNIX has suffered: a big number of incompatible
versions with fixes from different vendors.
All-in-all Linux4s license was specifically designed to avoid this
situation. Our license is much more attractive for commercial vendors,
and strangely we don't have that problem.
I believe Linux acceptance was a matter of timing. In those days ATT
wanted to own an OS that the public needed. The only winners after the
legal suit were Microsoft and in a lesser scale Linux.
Some vendors say they prefer Linux because there is bigger support on
the net and there are more books on Linux...Well I don't feel like
baby-sitting anyway.
I like the things how they are now, after all....one small group of
committers can work in a more organized way, without the pressure of
bazillion "Microsofted" users that think an OS depends only on it's GUI.
Everything seems to show that we can emulate Linux better than Caldera
does and that knowledgeable people will turn to FreeBSD when the time
comes. In the end, Linux is a toyland where hackers can explore
possibilities that will feed FreeBSD sooner or later.
One thing I have clear, though, is that if commercial vendors of FreeBSD
products win we also win, so ...the idea of a commercial vendors
registry is good (and we also need to control them somehow :-)).
Let's leave the discusion of FreeBSD's development vs. amount of
commercial followers closed...OK?
＞
＞ I have ran FreeBSD since 1.1.5.1, and still say it is the best
＞ available on PC's... Yes it is work in progress... The only
＞ program/operating system that is not work in progress is the one that
＞ just got degaussed...
＞
When I first knew FreeBSD (2.0.5) it was considered a networking box. If
you wanted something for human use, Linux was a more recommendable
option. This gap has closed significantly due to the excellent ports
collection and the strong CD distribution. The only thing that speaks
bad of us is that Linux became multiplatform first, when we had an
excellent example to follow !
Pedro.
＞ I sure as h*ll don't hear no fat lady singing the demise of FreeBSD...
＞
＞
＞ Jim
＞ --
＞ All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped,
＞ think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or
＞ radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner"
＞ KC5VDJ 2-meter, 70cm - KPC-3 Plus packet capable
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 9
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:54:25 1997)
Subject: Re: Another Linux Religious war (was Re: Commercial vendors registry)
Adrian Chadd wrote:
＞
＞ God I love a good religious battle, don't you?
＞
＞ I agree with Jordan - this is getting quite out of hand.
＞
I agree, and I won't go into the Linux vs. FreeBSD controversy either.
I do have (I hope) some constructive suggestions, after having a crack
on a Linux box:
1) I like our way of rebuilding the kernel, but perhaps "we" (actually a
good programmer, not me) could add a program or script that would ask
the options for the desired kernel and will help build the configuration
file. Nothing really fancy is required, maybe even a PERL script should
be enough.
2) I have found that in Linux the administrator has greater control over
the disks. There are defragmentation tools (which are not really
required in UNIX of course), and there's also a semi-graphical fdisk
utility.
3) There is some more information regarding sharing swap space with
other OSs..haven't tried that on FreeBSD.
4) I agree that stability is of primary importance, but additional
features clearly labelled in BETA state would be nice. IPX routing, for
example, is said to be tested only on 2.1.x boxes but it was not
included until 2.2. The SCO emulation wasn't upgraded until version 2.2,
not to mention the ports tree. It all gave the impression that 2.1.x
wasn't important at all.
Pedro.
＞
＞ --
＞ Adrian Chadd | UNIX, MS-DOS and Windows ...
＞ | (also known as the Good, the bad and the
＞ |
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 10
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:55:34 1997)
Subject: Re: Commercial vendors registry
＞ Case in point... Lin[s]ux... Ten-Twenty different versions, bad
＞ networking, even worse VM... Vendors love it!! Why? Hmmmm...
＞
＞ Maybe it's because people have gone out and and said to h*ll with all
＞ this bs counting the number of angels one can paint on the head of a
＞ pin [read that as philosophical bs discussions] and wrote books for
＞ Lin[s]ux, made it available at the local store on CD-ROM, plastered
＞ the magazines for it, invented magazines for it, and got the attention
＞ of the vendors enough that they develop for it...
I would write a book for FreeBSD, but...
o It takes ~2000 hours to write a decent book. This is one
man year. FreeBSD can't maintain stable interfaces for
one man year, so my book would be outdated. Linux can
mantain stable interfaces because they have to walk a
terrifically fine line between all their various distributions.
o I would have to voice my honest opinions about some very
idiotic things which never change, even though they have
been pointed at time and again and the statement made "hey,
look here at this idiotic thing".
o The FreeBSD market is self limiting because the number of
FreeBSD enthusiasts who can simultaneously participate is
also inherently limited. That means I'd have to charge
a lot, or I'd have to convince an awful lot of the available
people to buy the book. Neither prosepect seens very fruitful.
The vendor attention and magazine/press attention that Linux has is
missing from FreeBSD (all freely available BSD's) because there is
no single mouthpiece, like Linus. He is a Schnelling point, a common
reference for Linux, and without a Bill Jolitz or similar "old father",
*BSD appears strangley amorpohrous and intractable to journalists who
really *would* like to be able to get a hold of something, a spokesperson
who can speak on behalf of the project, and who can drive that stake
into the ground, two years in the future, and tell them "here's how we
are going to go about getting there". There is no drama or story on
the order of Steve Jobs and Allpe, Steve Jobs and NeXT, Bill Gates and
Microsoft, Linus and Linux, etc., etc..
＞ Or for that matter, the same for the lamers using Lin[s]ux!!!!
The "lamers using Linux" have A Piece Of The True Cross... they have
the GPL, for better or worse, and have a religion built around it. and
they have a pope (Linus) and a college of cardinals (each the equivalent
of a BSD core team leader with a license from the Pope to make final and
binding theological judgements, subject only to the will of the Pope).
You can't reasonably compare a Kuwait-style limited sufferage government
to the Divine Right of Kings without delving into an abstraction of what
you are comparing from how you are performing the comparison. People
with A Piece Of The True Cross are in it for The Paradise To Come, and
the motivations behind the groups are not similar.
Regards,
Terry Lambert
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 11
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:56:13 1997)
Subject: Re: Commercial vendors registry
＞ > Linux is more available for users, and a lot of its users have no
＞ > clue, how to use it.
＞
＞ Ugh. I take exception here. It sounds like you are claiming Linux
＞ users mostly come from installations of CDROM's from bookstores, instead
＞ of from the net. Net availability is equal, if different.
Actually, I'd agree with that statement. *MOST* Linux users install
from CDROMS. If it weren't that way I'd argue that Linux would not be
as popular as it is, since their network installations are just
recently as easy as the FreeBSD installation. They essentially copies
the FreeBSD install to do network installations.
Nate
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 12
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:57:16 1997)
Subject: Re: Commercial vendors registry
In reply:
＞ > > Linux is more available for users, and a lot of its users have no
＞ > > clue, how to use it.
＞ >
＞ > Ugh. I take exception here. It sounds like you are claiming Linux
＞ > users mostly come from installations of CDROM's from bookstores, instead
＞ > of from the net. Net availability is equal, if different.
＞
＞ Actually, I'd agree with that statement. *MOST* Linux users install
＞ from CDROMS. If it weren't that way I'd argue that Linux would not be
＞ as popular as it is, since their network installations are just
＞ recently as easy as the FreeBSD installation. They essentially copies
＞ the FreeBSD install to do network installations.
ditto...
putting the cd-roms on the shelves of computers-r-us(tm) is what got
lin[s]ux it's biggest user base...
try to find FreeBSD anywhere... you'll find lin[s]ux cds in 99 out of
100 computer/software stores though, every mall in america...
not doing this was a big marketing mistake on behalf of FreeBSD...
jim
--
All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped,
think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or
radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner"
KC5VDJ 2-meter, 70cm - KPC-3 Plus packet capable
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linus 13
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 14:58:24 1997)
Subject: Re: Linux vs freeBSD
On Thu, Oct 09, 1997 at 11:04:24AM -0700, Robert Rusk wrote:
＞ I'm just wondering what advantages freeBSD has over Linux.
＞ If you could enlighten me on this matter I would be most grateful
That's a hot potato. A lot of people get fanatical about the
question. Still, I've just had to write this up for the new edition
of "The Complete FreeBSD", so here goes. I welcome any comments or
corrections.
Greg
What about Linux?
Linux is a clone of UNIX written by Linus Torvalds, a student in Helsinki,
Finland. At the time, the BSD sources were not freely available, and so Linus
wrote his own version of UNIX.
Linux is a superb example of how a few dedicated, clever people can produce an
operating system that is better than well-known commercial systems developed by
a large number of trained software engineers. It is better even than a number
of commercial UNIX systems.
Obviously, I don't think Linux is as good as FreeBSD, or I wouldn't be writing
this book, but the differences between FreeBSD and Linux are more a matter of
philosophy rather than of concept. Here are a few contrasts:
Table 1-1. Differences between FreeBSD and Linux
FreeBSD is a direct descendent of the Linux is a clone and never contained any
original UNIX, though it contains no AT&T code
residual AT&T code.
FreeBSD is a complete operating system, Linux is a kernel, personally maintained
maintained by a central group of soft- by a Linus Torvalds. The non-kernel
ware developers. There is only one programs supplied with Linux are part of
release of FreeBSD. a distribution, of which there are sev-
eral.
FreeBSD aims to be a stable production Linux is still a ``bleeding edge'' de-
environment. velopment environment, though many dis-
tributions aim to make it more suitable
for production use.
FreeBSD is still relatively unknown, Linux did not have any lawsuits to
since its distribution was restricted contend with, so for a long time it was
for a long time due to the AT&T law- the only free UNIX-type system avail-
suits. able.
As a result of the lack of knowledge of A growing amount of commercial software
FreeBSD, not much commercial software is is becoming available for Linux.
available for it.
As a result of the smaller user base, Just about any new board will soon have
fewer drivers are available for FreeBSD a driver for Linux.
than for Linux.
Because of the lack of commercial appli- Linux appears not to need to be able to
cations and drivers, FreeBSD will run run FreeBSD programs or drivers.
most Linux program. The drivers can
also be ported relatively simply.
FreeBSD has a large number of afficiona- Linux has a large number of afficionados
dos who are prepared to flame anybody who are prepared to flame anybody who
who dares suggest that it's not better dares suggest that it's not better than
than Linux. FreeBSD.
In summary, Linux is also a very good operating system. For many, it's better
than FreeBSD. It's a pity that so many people on both sides are prepared to
flame each other.
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 14
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 15:00:16 1997)
Subject: Re: Linux vs freeBSD
On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Greg Lehey wrote:
＞ On Thu, Oct 09, 1997 at 09:55:00AM -0700, Annelise Anderson wrote:
＞ >
＞ >
＞ > On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Greg Lehey wrote:
＞ >
＞ > Drivers: Drivers are available for most standard hardware, right?
＞
＞ OK. How about:
＞
＞ As a result of the smaller user base, FreeBSD is less likely to have
＞ drivers for brand-new boards than Linux.
∶( Is this really true? Maybe it's just some odd-ball stuff for which
FreeBSD doesn't have drivers? There are drivers for the latest SCSI
cards (2940UW), latest video cards (Matrox Millenium, Number Nine
whatever, etc), Awe 64? All the Ethernet stuff?
＞ > Software installation: Some people have found that installing software
＞ > on Linux is far more of a hassle than it is on FreeBSD, because of the
＞ > variety of versions of software that may be included on any particular
＞ > distribution of Linux. This may be one of FreeBSD's greatest and growing
＞ > strengths--that the version of the software on which port A is dependent
＞ > is there....basically installing software from ports or packages is
＞ > really pretty easy with FreeBSD.
＞
＞ That's a good one. How about:
＞
＞ As a result of the centralized develop- The ease of installation of Linux de-
＞ ment style, FreeBSD is straightforward pends on the ``distribution''. If you
＞ and easy to install. switch from one distribution of Linux to
＞ another, you'll have to learn a new set
＞ of installation tools.
＞
Actually I wasn't referring to the initial installation of the operating
system; I was talking about the ports & packages. I read one extended
comparison of installing and configuring FreeBSD (2.2.1R) vs. Linux
(slackware) that I found quite informative, by someone named Chris
Johnson. Here's what he says about this:
There is a statement in the Linux community that goes something like
"What Version are you running?", "I'm running Slackware 96, 2.0.29,
with xyz upgraded to version..." It is a running joke that no two
Linux boxes are the same. Even at my shop, no two Linux boxes are
running exactly the same software load.
The reason for this is that bug fixes are rapidly developed... Against
the LATEST software version. There is no time or effort spent on
maintaining old releases. Rather than patch a bug against 1.3.20, the
bug is fixed in 2.0.28. And oh by the way, in order to run kernel
2.0.28, you need to upgrade to bintools x.y+1, and if you do upgrade
to bintools x.y+1 you also need to....
There is this vast amount of inter dependence that you need to be
aware of when maintaining a Linux box.
The FreeBSD people run just one development tree. They use CVS, an
extension to RCS, to control all the source for the base Unix that is
FreeBSD. Any bug that is fixed is usually fixed against the released
version and then merged into the developmental version. This means
that you can keep your released version very clean.
It also seems that the third party packages and ports are kept in a
fairly clean configuration by the FreeBSD people so that future ports
are easy.
A brief digression into the concept of FreeBSD ports is in order.
Normally when you want to install some piece of third party software,
you find an archive with that source, down load the archive. Put the
source into a source directory, configure, build,
fix,fix,fix,port,fix, patch, install.
On some packages, this can happen in a few minutes, on other packages,
this can take hours, days or weeks.
FreeBSD has a Makefile system that starts with a "ports source
skeleton." Once you say "make", the make file looks up where to get
the source from, in order it is: Local disk, primary site for that
package, secondary site for that package, the FreeBSD site. The source
is the transfered to your local disk. An MD5 checksum is computed and
compared against the ports recorded checksum. If they match, the
source is unpacked, generic patches are applied, then specific FreeBSD
patches are then applied and finally, the port is built.
This makes porting software darn near trivial. And more and more
people are contributing their FreeBSD ports back to the FreeBSD
people.
This also means that the amount of disk space needed for source can be
greatly reduced because after you have done the install, you can
delete the modifications.
Linux uses the more conventional porting algorithm, with one extra bit
of confusion. If this package is one that comes with Slackware, it is
likely that it was installed into the system libraries and binary
areas. I.e. /usr/lib and /usr/bin. This means that you have to be
extra careful when installing upgrades to make sure that the upgrade
replaces all of the old parts. This had caused GREAT problems for me
in the past.
I thought that interesting--If you'd like all of what he wrote, I'll
forward it to you. He also says Linux is easier to install on "cheap"
PC hardware (ide disks) but FreeBSD on scsi is trivial.
＞ > FreeBSD as well as Linux is "bleeding edge" in -current....you don't
＞ > want to give the impression there's no advancement going on. But the
＞ > "current" release of FreeBSD (2.2-R and its descendants, 2.2-Stable,
＞ > right now) aim to be reliable environments for production etc.etc.etc....
＞ > Note that Yahoo! uses FreeBSD (2.1 as of a few months ago),
＞
Annelise
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 15
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 15:02:20 1997)
Subject: Re: So, FreeBSD can't be a very popular OS, why?
On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Huang Min wrote:
＞ Hi, sirs,
I guess that includes me :-)
＞ Can any one tell me why FreeBSD can't be a very popular OS? What's its
＞ weakness to other UNIX OS? And what's its weakness to DOS-WINDOWS OS?
Here's my impressions, probably others will disagree.
With a unix style operating system, basically you are a user who needs to
employ a system administrator, or make other arrangements.
When this is your own computer at home, you have to be both user and
administrator to yourself.
The other systems you mentioned are restrained so that they are "easy" to
manage. One result is that almost anyone can operate the whole system.
Another is that there's lots of things you cannot do. Either the operating
system prevents you from doing them for your own safety (it's designed for
non-tech people after all), or the system has been so cut down that its
functionality is limited. If, like many people, you are using your pentium
as a typewriter, personal calculator and telephone index, that should suit
you real well.
If you want to do more with your computer, or if you want to really exploit
the quality hardware you have, then you want a full, powerful and
configurable system, like FreeBSD, Linux, etc. The next thing you need is
someone to install it, set it up, and configure it to suit your needs. Then
you'll want that person to come in and maintain it occasionally.
But it's your home computer, you don't want to pay the wages of someone with
a university degree and years of experience, do you?
So, either you relent and install a Windows Typewriter System, or you learn
to do it yourself.
Learning to do it yourself is where the fun, excitement, and tears come in.
Unix was never meant for beginners. It expects you to know what you're doing
and to take full responsibility every step of the way. So you buy books. You
go back and buy more books.
The books don't help much if you're starting as a real novice. There's a
little gap between "this is how we turn it on" and "setting up <something
complex>" that is not filled. The books expect us to already know some stuff
and to have teachers or peers to turn to.
Linux is overcoming this problem. There's a large and enthusiastic mob of
young Linux users who help each other in many ways, by email, web pages, and
writing easier books about running Linux. Linux is used by a whole lot of
people in their homes, people like you and me and our kid brothers, people
who are happy to try and fail and try again and tell their friends. These
are the same people who develop Linux. You and I can become Linux developers
too, as soon as we'd like to give it a try and distribute our attempts.
Not so many home users try FreeBSD. They think it's too hard.
Lots of very wise and experienced experts run FreeBSD because they like the
way it works. They don't need much help.
A few home users like you and me try to run FreeBSD and make lots of
mistakes. There's always someone there to help us out though. It just seems
like we're the only ones because we're always too afraid to speak up, to say
I just use it at home, I don't know much, I do silly things, but I'm here
with you people.
Slowly, more home users are coming to FreeBSD. We are the bold ones who like
a challenge, willing to learn something new, appreciating this solid and
versatile operating system. When there are enough of us, we'll speak out
more. Then the Wise Ones will write us some more tips and instructions, then
more will join, then more will speak out, then the whole thing will become
easier to approach and more popular. But with FreeBSD, we know that our
source code is coming from people who know what they're doing. It's a solid
foundation with freedom to learn and explore in our own way, at _any_ level.
I don't think my idea of this FreeBSD future is hugely popular at the
moment, but things are definitely moving in that direction.
Some people simply want to turn on their computer, have it help them to do
some work, and turn it off again having learned nothing. Those people are
probably well served by smaller, simpler, less reliable, and more costly
operating systems that don't require anything more than the occsional
automated upgrade from CD (until something goes wrong that can't be fixed)
Regards,
-*Sue*-
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: bsd vs linux 16
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 15:03:52 1997)
Subject: Re: FreeBSD vs. Linux
On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 02:21:09 -0500, thomas c high iii
<tch3@mindspring.com> wrote:
＞I currently run Red Hat Linux 4.2. I have only been exposed to Linux,
＞and never FreeBSD. *Almost* everyone I know runs Linux
Almost everyone I know uses Windows. But I have little use for it.
＞I have had my curiosity peaked. What are the advantages/disadvantages
＞of running FreeBSD instead of Linux?
Linux is a nice learning tool with plenty of docs and help available.
Good device driver support too.
＞I am not extremely experienced in administering a unix type operating
＞ system and am anxious to learn it.
I've tested both Linux and FreeBSD extensively, and I keep my eye on
Linux to see what improvements are made. I recently tested the 2.1.55
kernel, but it still falls apart where FreeBSD just keeps on humming.
FreeBSD handles a heavy load much better. That's why Walnut Creek runs
its 2000+ user FTP server on FreeBSD. I don't think you'll find many
Linux servers capable of that load.
There are more Linux users than FreeBSD because in a single user
environment Linux often *appears* to work fine. But ISPs who need to
run serious production machines almost invariably choose FreeBSD over
Linux. They're beyond the learning stage and don't need a lot of help
and documentation.
Linux helped me learn UNIX, but I've moved on to FreeBSD. I don't
recommend that you immediately drop Linux and start with FreeBSD,
because there is more documentation and help available for Linux, and
sometimes the Linux man pages are better than their FreeBSD
counterparts.
But if you have any intention of ever running a serious server, at
some point you should investigate FreeBSD.
John
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
发信人: ayanami (Kanzaki Hitomi), 信区: Linux
标 题: my opinion
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Wed Dec 3 15:06:12 1997)
I am a freebsd user and I will never look back to linux.
Freebsd is more likely to be a real UNIX with powerful admin tools and
much better networking skills. Compared to it, linux is just for about
10-20 users, but freebsd is for 100-200 users.
But freebsd is much harder to learn, so if you are a newbie, go for linux.
If you really want chanllege for for freebsd
--
Kanzaki Hitomi <---> Van Fanel Tenku no Escaflowne
Ayanami Rei <---> Ikari Shinji Shin seiki Evangelion
Tamahome <---> Miaka Fushigi Yuugi
dream lovers.... Fansubber wanna-be
※ 来源:·BBS 水木清华站 bbs.net.tsinghua.edu.cn·[FROM: attila.stevens-]
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